In this fifth episode of the podcast series, Dr Barankin chats with Michael Greenberg, MD, about his morning ritual, why he wins at "Six Degrees from Kevin Bacon" every time, and what ways he de-stresses from work and life. Listen into their conversation!
Transcript
Dr Barankin: Hi. We have Dr Michael Greenberg today, a dermatologist who has been in practice for 43 years in Elk Grove Village, IL. He is a founding partner of the Illinois Dermatology Institute, a group of dermatologists dedicated to the preservation of quality skin care.
His practice and life focus on doctor-patient communication, humanism, and spirituality. Along those lines, he is an improv actor who performs improv comedy on stage with his troupe, "The Waiting Room," and promotes improv listening skills to other physicians and students.
He is the host of DermConsult on reachmd.com and has written and spoken extensively during his career. He has danced in John Hughes' She's Having a Baby, starring Kevin Bacon. He wins every time at the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon game.
I'd like to welcome Dr Michael Greenberg. Thank you for joining me.
Dr Michael Greenberg: Oh, Ben, it's a pleasure. It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
Dr Barankin: All right, Michael, let's get rolling. Let me ask you about your favorite book, and why?
Dr Greenberg: Any author is going to name their own book. [laughs] My favorite book is...actually, there's two. One is mine, A Man of Sorrows. The other book I love is called The Art of Racing in the Rain. I have read it about four times.
Dr Barankin: What's that book about?
Dr Greenberg: It's about a dog. [laughs] I love dogs. It's about a dog who shows people what pure love really is.
Dr Barankin: You have dogs at home?
Dr Greenberg: Oh, I can't live without a dog. Absolutely not.
Dr Barankin: OK. [laughs] What are you currently reading?
Dr Greenberg: I am currently [laughs] reading Moby Dick. For some reason, I saw it on Booklist, and I said, "I was supposed to read this in high school. I was supposed to read it in college. I think I'm going to read it now and see what it's like." I think it's going to be a spiritual classic.
Dr Barankin: Do you have a favorite singer, band, or song?
Dr Greenberg: Song, there's a couple of songs that I like. One is "The Rose," the way Bette Midler sings it. The other is an interesting song by Gavin DeGraw, which is "You Got Me." It's one of those humanistic type songs that says, "Don't worry about things. They're going to work out."
Dr Barankin: I'm going to have to check that one out. Of course, I know Bette Midler's “The Rose,” that's a classic, love it. Michael, it's tough now with COVID, but any recent movies? I guess now with streaming with Netflix and Amazon Prime and all that, any recent favorite movies, any favorite movies from the past?
Dr Greenberg: Yeah, I've got a bunch of favorite movies. First, and of course, I should always say the movie that I'm in, She's Having a Baby, but that would be not real. It's not my favorite movie.
What my favorite movie is Field of Dreams, of all time films. One of my favorites is also Midnight in Paris, the Woody Allen film, because there's a message there. It talks about living in the moment where you're at.
Actually, a fantastic film which I have watched recently and haven't seen in years is Casablanca. It's when movies were real movies. Those are my movie faves. I love all the Toy Story movies. I love all the Pixar movies. If I really had to go on a desert island with one movie, it would be Field of Dreams. I still cry every time I see it at the end.
Dr Barankin: Certainly a classic, a little better received than Waterworld, I suppose.
Dr Greenberg: [laughs] Yeah, absolutely.
Dr Barankin: I will have to check out Casablanca, obviously a classic, but I have not seen that yet. Michael, any morning rituals for you?
Dr Greenberg: I do. This is what I've been teaching to patients since COVID started. I've been doing it for years, but now I do it with almost every patient. Every morning, Ben, when I wake up, I take my pulse. I look over at my wife and I go, "Ah, she's breathing. She's alive."
Then I talk to whatever is the universe, call it God, call it consciousness, call it quantum conscious. I go, "OK, I get that any one of these heartbeats could be my last." I understand that starting the day.
I also realize that as a human being, I am going to have at least 50 opportunities to be a total jerk. I ask for help in keeping my mouth shut every time I want to get angry at a patient or a guy who cuts me off in traffic.
Just in case it is my last day, I want to make the world a better place, not gum it up more than it is. That's my morning ritual every morning.
Dr Barankin: Wow, I love it. [laughs] I have not heard anything like that, but I love it. Do you meditate in any way or do any sort of mindfulness work?
Dr Greenberg: That's an interesting question. To me, meditation is not something you do at a specific time. I'm meditating all the time. All meditation means is you stop listening to the crazy voices in your head and stay in the moment. I work on that as a 24/7 job. Not like as an hour in the evening, and then the rest of the time, I don't have to be focused. Meditation is a practice of 24/7.
Dr Barankin: Excellent. Again, this is the classic med school question. If you could have three people over for dinner, friends and family excluded, who would they be? Dead or alive, who would you invite over?
Dr Greenberg: Number one would be Nelson Mandela. I so admire a guy who's in jail for all those years and comes out and says, "We're not going to hurt anybody. We need each other." That to me is one of the most astounding things I've ever heard.
The other I'd like to have at the same dinner table—Dalai Lama. I would love to talk to him. I've heard some of him on recordings. Actually, glad you asked me that today because I would invite Joe Biden to my dinner table. I am so in love with our new president. I just think he's astonishing.
Dr Barankin: I think that would be a pretty impressive dinner conversation. What would you serve? What kind of food would you have?
Dr Greenberg: Barbecue. [laughs] I'd have smoked meat brought in from Quebec, from Montreal rather. I used to have a resident from Montreal and her family would send in smoked meat and I loved it.
Dr Barankin: Yeah, you cannot beat Montreal smoked meat or Montreal bagels. What advice, Michael, would you give to your 18-year-old self?
Dr Greenberg: This is great. Relax, Michael. Everything works out. I have found that in my life. All the stuff that I worried about never really happened. Mark Twain said that on his deathbed. He said, "98% of the stuff that I worried about never happened."
Every time I met a crisis in life, if I let it go, it seems to work out. Very often, better than if I try and force it. That's the advice I would give to my 18-year-old self, "Don't chase after stuff, they'll find you."
It was at 18 that I found my wife on a blind date, first date. I looked across the room at Geri and that was it. Years shifted and now here we are 50 years later, still having fun.
Dr Barankin: It's beautiful. Michael, if you weren't a physician, what do you think you'd love or be good at doing instead?
Dr Greenberg: This is a weird answer too. I would love to be a carpenter building really high-level beautiful furniture.
Dr Barankin: Have you ever explored that? Have you ever taken any courses in that or...?
Dr Greenberg: Not at all, but I've gone to stores where you have artisan furniture that these guys make. I just think it's like a museum. Working with wood, or natural substances, or working with stone, I would love to do that.
Dr Barankin: That's terrific. Do you have any favorite hobbies or favorite forms of exercise?
Dr Greenberg: Yup. Being 71 years old and having two artificial knees, I adore my elliptical machine because it doesn't hurt my knees. We moved about 2 years ago because my wife is very smart. She said, "Mike, over 70 and I don't want to be in this house with all these stairs when we're 80 or 85 or 90."
We moved into a house with a first-floor bedroom. The downstairs had enough space to keep our gym equipment. I'm on my elliptical machine watching television, looking for new movies and things almost every day.
Dr Barankin: Any fun series or shows you're streaming these days?
Dr Greenberg: The Spanish Princess. You also asked about other fun stuff I do, and that is improv in theater. You got into improv a number of years ago. I've written about it and done podcasts about it.
I went into it because my friend said [laughs] it was good spiritual practice, and it is. You learn to listen in improv. That's the key, listening to your scene partner and agreeing with your scene partner, no matter what silly things they say. I realized quickly that that was a skill that doctors could have.
There are doctors all over the place tuning into improv. I started a program in Paris in the medical school I teach at. I've done workshops around Chicago and talked to other doctors about honing these listening skills. They're very simple, and they're very profound. I think everyone should take an improv class.
Dr Barankin: We look forward to having you up in Toronto for one of our meetings to actually teach us about the improv and how you've come to that. We're looking forward to that, hopefully in this coming year.
Michael, how do you find balance between your medical career, your family, and all these personal interests, including improv?
Dr Greenberg: I think balance is very overrated. [laughs] I don't really look for balance. My wife and I in our family look for what we want to do together, and we do it and we've just negotiate it.
Being a dermatologist and only working 4 days a week, I have Wednesdays, I have weekends. I have plenty of time to do the things that I want to do and do the things my family wants to do. It somehow works out organically. I don't worry too much about it. If I do get off balance a little bit, my wife lets me know. Of course, I always deny it.
Dr Barankin: [laughs]
Dr Greenberg: Then I do what she wants because that's the secret to happiness.
Dr Barankin: I agree. I think having a great partner is probably the number one decision you can make. They serve as a great check and balance for your stress, and whether you're getting off balance. I agree that once they point that out, I think you're on the right track in following their advice.
Dr Greenberg: They are our greatest teachers and also the biggest pains in the ass we can have in our lives. I'm a big pain in the ass to her too, which is great because it makes us really look at what's important.
Dr Barankin: Absolutely. Michael, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be, and why?
Dr Greenberg: That's a no brainer, man. I would live in Paris. I speak fluent French. It's the place in the world where I'm actually the most at peace and the happiest. I seem to fit into their culture very well.
Matter of fact, I always like to pretend that when I see American tourists when I'm there, I stop them on the street and I say, "Oh, you're American. Would you like me to take your picture?" I start talking to them, pretending that I'm French.
I've a couple of American friends there and I've had [laughs] serious talks with them about how you get to move there. The first step would have to be I'd have to kill my wife. She's not leaving our grandchildren and neither am I, but I would live in Paris.
Dr Barankin: I agree. Paris is absolutely wonderful. I got engaged there. I have such fond memories of various conferences and other trips there, so love it. What would your ideal day look like, Michael?
Dr Greenberg: Let's see. In the morning, after I was crowned king of a small country...No. [laughs] My ideal day—I know that sounds really corny. My ideal day involves mornings with my wife. We love that breakfast together. Then going throughout the day in my practice, helping as many people as I can.
The secret to happiness in life and peace of mind, especially when you have problems, and I do, like everybody else. We all have these human worries and problems. The solution is to get out of your head and go help somebody. If I wasn't a doctor, I would find a way to help other people.
Dr Barankin: What's been your greatest travel experience outside of Paris? Where do you hope to travel next?
Dr Greenberg: Oh, wow. [laughs] With COVID, I would love to travel to my kids' house about 20 minutes away and spend more time hugging my grandchildren.
If you're being serious about where I'd like to travel in the world, I think I'm missing some place tropical. I want to go on an island and I want to go with her to a beach somewhere like Hawaii and not have a derm meeting there. Just hang out for a week or so with her. Just do nothing but have fun.
Dr Barankin: Wow. A dermatologist traveling without having a conference attached, that's unusual.
Dr Greenberg: I'll go to the conference, I just wouldn't go there.
Dr Barankin: Oh, I see.
Dr Greenberg: I'd sign in and go right out to the pool.
Dr Barankin: That's right. [laughs] Michael, what would you tell your children about going into medicine today?
Dr Greenberg: I would tell anyone about going into medicine, you can look at the negative side, and yes, we all hate the regulations and we all hate all the nonsense and having to call pharmacies. I think it's a greatest privilege in the world to be a doctor. It's not a job, it's a privilege. That's why I never intend to retire.
Look, Ben, I get to go to work every day in a clean shirt and a tie, if I want to. I get to hang out with people I genuinely like. I get to help them and I get paid for it. Now, [laughs] that's to me, the definition of heaven.
Dr Barankin: That's a pretty sweet deal. I agree. I was going to ask you what you think is the best way to de-stress. You've hit on that as far as meditating throughout the day in a sense and doing improv. Anything else that you do?
Dr Greenberg: Yeah, I'll add to that. To really de-stress, you have to remember we're hunting animals. When we get stressed, we build up adrenaline. The first thing you have to do is exercise. You have to burn it off. Like taking a long walk or jog on a machine, or doing something to burn that energy off.
The second thing you have to do is share it with somebody. In the Gnostic Gospels, there's a great line, "What you bring out of yourself from the inside is what will save you. What you don't bring out of yourself from the inside is what will destroy you."
I have a bunch of buddies that we're really close, and we work together in certain spiritual programs. We'll call each other and talk about it. Then, all of a sudden, it seems to disappear when someone's just really listening to and not trying to fix you. Let it out and work it out.
Dr Barankin: That's terrific advice. To wrap things up, any best investment you've ever made in your life and the story behind it?
Dr Greenberg: Yeah. The wedding license I paid $10 for in Cleveland, Ohio. Best investment I ever made in my life.
Dr Barankin: Terrific. Michael, thank you so very much for your time, for your insights, for your wisdom. I know I appreciate it, and no doubt our audience will as well. Thank you.
Dr Greenberg: Thanks for having me on.
